#29

Nothing will come of it, I presume. Parliament never lets itself get screwed over.

Also interested by the final paragraph:

The [Labour] party is in favour of Brexit but against Mrs May’s deal, which it argues will harm industry and cost jobs. It wants to delay Brexit to negotiate a better deal with Brussels.

Is that right? I thought we were still arguing in the other thread about what Labour actually did have in mind?

#30

If true, then Labour are fucked as well. Every side (and there are about six of them now) digging their heals in with unworkable positions. Fuck 'em all.

#31
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#32

good news? Nothing to see? Other?

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#33

Labour’s position has basically been to oppose May’s Brexit while being vague on what they would do, which has probably been the best tactic.

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#34

124 posts were split to a new topic: When does winter start - A Brexit Thread™️

#36

It might have been in the past, but now that May can turn around and say “Well… what would you do?”, they’re going to start looking very fucking stupid indeed.

#37

It’s a fair one line summary. Party policy is that they’re (currently) in favour of Brexit (they stood on a manifesto of a “Jobs First Brexit” last year on the basis of fulfilling the wishes of the electorate in 2016 and haven’t officially changed tack).

Official policy will see them trying to force a general election in a couple of weeks and requesting a delay to allow for a new government to renegotiate with different red lines (something the EU may be open to if the Tories aren’t returned to government again).

However, they also know that policy is likely to fall apart very quickly, hence lots more talk about alternative options after that happens. At that stage they’ve done all they can to force a “less harmful” Brexit, so it becomes about how to stop May’s or a No Deal Brexit. (The motion from conference)

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#38

They’re not going to get to negotiate Brexit themselves, so it’s a useful position to take for now. They’ve said repeatedly that they will oppose May’s deal, push for a general election and if/when that doesn’t happen then all options are on the table (with a second referendum looking increasingly likely).

#39

Makes no difference really. The EU27 have always said that they’d agree to a UK request for A50 being rescinded anyway.

#42

Then what happens? Do they suddenly become passionate remain supporters? They’re digging a huge hole for themselves from which they’ll struggle to convince anyone to help them out.

#44

Well there are a lot of unknowns right now - if it does go to another referendum with May’s deal vs remain on the ballot, they’ve given themselves an entirely logical platform to say that remain is the best option there.

I don’t think that now is the time for Labour to jump on the grenade that the tories are holding.

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#45

well sure …but this puts the power to make the decision right back into the hands of Parliament though no?

Like, another option in the “May Deal or a No Deal” argument

#46
#47

I do hope that happens, but I am still worried they don’t know what they’re doing. That May v Corbyn debate is going to be a complete mess for them if they don’t have a well thought through position on pretty much everything. And I don’t feel I’ve seen any evidence yet that they’re doing anything more than hoping the whole shitshow falls to pieces.

#48

This was always the case.

EDIT: It was always the case for the first bit. For the second bit, then it has always been another option if parliament votes for the opportunity to vote for it.

#49

but it’s essentially a confirmation that ‘No Deal’ can’t really happen right? That the consequence/alternative to May’s plan is not defaulting to No Deal WTO but is actually withdrawing Article 50 altogether

#50

What is the story being told about our democracy?

One of the stories is how undemocratic it’s been for so long. For the seat count to have been so divergent from and unrepresentative of the voting patterns is pretty unforgivable. If UKIP had the seats to match the number of votes they had then they couldn’t have played the aggrieved card so well. The current SNP seat count is clearly OTT (I believe Thatcher claimed Scotland would have the right to declare independence of the SNP ever got a majority of MPs, such was the unlikelihood of that then). And the Tories should never have had the clear run through the 80s that they did.

That’s not the only problem that led to this, but it’s a massive part of it. If the demos has a choice but that voice isn’t heard, a democracy is on shaky ground.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/the-graveyard-of-first-past-the-post/

Nick. Fucking. Clegg. You had one* job!

*well, two, and you fucked them both up.

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#51

That’s a very interesting angle and not one I’ve though of. It basically says dropping out with no deal isn’t an inevitable consequence of not accepting May’s deal but an avoidable choice by the government.

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#52

I feel like this isn’t a story that’s told. It’s a truth but no one seems to want to engage with it because it would lead to PR and everyone is sure that’s some kind of filthy European system :grimacing:

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