Winter Brexit Thread: Our DiScontent

makeitstop
ohno

#77

It has and it’s a very subtle tweak but it spells out that the cliff edge isn’t inevitable but the government need to choose to jump.


#80

and Wales and Scotland!


#81

The crusade to make this whole thing as stupid as possible continues:


#82

I’ve said all along that Labour have to follow Brexit through to its bloody end. It’s the only way that the Tories will be held accountable. It’s how the Tories have been driven into chaos. The public have to see, all along the way, that Labour gave the DeMoCrAtIc WiLl oF tHe CoUnTrY all the good will in the world. So that when it becomes obviously it’s totally untenable, whether they’re in power or not, they can say they gave it their best shot.

If Labour are going to win the next election, they largely need to both win and hold onto Leave voting constituencies. They were never going to do that by going all in on this People’s Vote malarkey straight away, and it’s telling that the sensibles of this country, who used to be so wise about the Left’s political naivety, refuse to see that.

I also strongly believe there’s a difference between racist dogwhistling and this kind of strategising, if we’re talking about what falls under the term triangulation. Also, yeah, being in opposition means you can be wishy washy on a position, who knew.


#83

Let’s run through 'em.

  1. Does it ensure a strong and collaborative future relationship with the EU?

Wooly. Not tough.

  1. Does it deliver the “exact same benefits” as we currently have as members of the Single Market and Customs Union?

Is this the gotcha? Would this ensure continuity of freedom of movement?

  1. Does it ensure the fair management of migration in the interests of the economy and communities?

Can you still get a mug with this on?

  1. Does it defend rights and protections and prevent a race to the bottom?

Cool. But what rights and protections, exactly?

  1. Does it protect national security and our capacity to tackle cross-border crime?

Wooly. Not tough.

  1. Does it deliver for all regions and nations of the UK?

Wooly. Not tough.


#84

The six cowardly sheep tests


#85

Agreeing to something without confirming the parameters or format.

:thinking: Sounds familiar.

DEBATE MEANS DEBATE!


#86

woolly

Damn, it’s almost as if the government has steadfastly refused to release any details about the actual deal until very recently! Or that Labour wrote them deliberately for the government to fail them!


#87

^this.

I mean, it’s pretty obvious, I’d have thought.


#88

here’s the thing though;

if it ends up with a Socialist Labour Government and the UK Remaining in the EU then Labour have played a blinder

if it ends up with May scraping through her shit deal and the ultimate disintegration/isolation of the UK then Labour/Corbyn have played a stinker

as it is then I’m both with you WZA and with Marckee/Persefone while also being against you both (in a way)

Oh for socialist leader who champions the European project, supports free movement, dismantles the class society in the UK, improves workers rights & seeks to end poverty.

I’d like to think Corbyn could be all these things but also I’m being nagged by my naivety in hoping that the parts he’s clearly lacking are all a calculated strategy to get over the line :confused:


#89

Again, that much was obvious already, but I guess if it makes an obvious point more obvious to the political commentators in this country, then that’s all for the good.


#90

Corbyn would be proud


#91

What do we want?

The moon on a stick! Failing that, something else! Otherwise, some stuff!

When do we want it?

All in good time! Just bide your time!


Obviously the best way to inspire support for opposition to a government.


#92

Not sure what the SNP’s position on independence has to do with this.


#93

‘Having cake and eating it’, there. Does this not mean they support an endless negotiation with the EU? If not, what is their endgame?


#94

How not?

It’s obvious!

(But seriously, the position on independence is entirely clear. Sure, the timing is TBC. But the shopping list is utterly beyond doubt.)


#95

The endgame is to be in government, and in power. That has always been the only way to prevent Brexit happening.

With their strategy, if they push the government into collapse, Labour can attempt a renegotiation, but can hold their hands up and say that there is no deal that is as good as the current arrangements without taking a significant electoral hit.


#96

place your bets


#97

So, pretend to be pro-Brexit for a bit, and then pull the mask off? That is all too easily portrayed as EU obstinancy.

Cowardly. And if not triangulation, then what is?

Just fucking call Brexit out for what it is: insular English bullshit.


#98

“Hi 52% of people that voted you’re a bunch of insular cowardly bullshiting wankers. Will you vote for us please”