Winter Brexit Thread: Our DiScontent

makeitstop
ohno

#99

Nah.

But, actually. A bit yeah, to honest.

I’m sick of the propping up and legitimisation of all this ‘negotiate with the EU’ nonsense being a valid outcome of the referendum we’ve had.


#100

You seem to be putting an awful lot of faith in something there is no evidence for. If it actually gets to the point that they’re in Government (won’t happen) and they get the chance to renegotiate (won’t be allowed) and they then stop Brexit at that point having strung everyone along, voter apathy will hit an all time low and the Tories will tear them to shreds - probably putting them back into power almost immediately.

I genuinely thought the ‘Corbyn is playing a blinder’ mantra was a DiS in-joke, but do folk actually believe it? He’s doing nothing but painting himself into a corner.


#101

One way or another, voters are going to wind up feeling betrayed over Brexit. Anecdotally, most people who voted Leave do so already. So the question is, how do you bear that without removing all faith from our political system, and make the ones who actually put this entire thing into motion carry the can? Some people think it’s by Labour refusing to honour the referendum result in the first place and openly work towards keeping Britain in the EU, come what may. I beg to differ.


#102

It’s not pretending to be pro-Brexit - it’s not ignoring a referendum. The right wing press and headbangers in the Tory party have been portraying EU clarity and unity as obstinancy, but if you say that there is no deal better than the current deal, you’re also effectively saying that the EU already have been quite generous.

Brexit is insular bullshit amongst and for many people (it’s not just English - nearly 40% of people in Scotland, over 50% of people in Wales and nearly 45% in Northern Ireland voted for it), but it was also an anti-establishment vote by people let down especially since the GFC and long before that too.

Labour have a wider responsibility than the SNP - they can’t just go insulting huge swathes of the country and still be expected to form a government.


#103

It certainly won’t happen if Labour come out in favour of a People’s Vote now. It certainly won’t happen if Labour vote in support of May’s deal. It certainly won’t happen if they sack Brexit off totally right now.

But the EU27 have said that they would allow this.

So are Labour painting themselves into a corner; or are they being equivocal in their support of various strategies? It can’t be both.


#104

At present, it doesn’t look like they stand for anything. Why would a swing voter vote for Labour at the moment? It appears they have nothing to offer.

But the EU27 have said that they would allow this.

I’ve not seen anything to indicate this is true, but I’d question whether Labour would actually ever want it to happen.

So are Labour painting themselves into a corner; or are they being equivocal in their support of various strategies? It can’t be both.

They stand for nothing (or everything, as some people seem to think). This never works out well in politics.


#105

I’m prepared to explicitly say the EU have been very generous in entertaining our timewasting.

Careful, now.

*of the electorate

37% of the electorate in Wales, 26% of the electorate in Scotland, 28% in NI. 38.9% in England. 37.4% for the UK.

Which is important. Because there’s a precedent. The 1979 referendum in Scotland included a (Labour) clause requiring >40% of the electorate to support devolution (or, more accurately, >40% the known-to-be dodgy electoral roll).

Are you suggesting that the SNP have been insulting huge swathes of the country? Risible, if so.

Lots of this stuff you’re coming out with is sounding exactly like the kind of thing you dismiss as ‘sensibles’/fbpe talk.


#106

Would have thought being against Tory austerity horseshit and actually funding public services would be a good reason


#107

Well they’ve already said they’re pro-that as a last resort. But, yes, it’s not the best option to be in favour as a foremost solution to this.

No-one sane thinks they should do this.

Aye, the horse has bolted on that one. Which explains the ‘pro-Brexit for now, until maybe later’ strategy.


#108

#109

It is. But it doesn’t answer the Brexit question. Which, unavoidably, is the #1 issue of the day.


#110

Have you read their last manifesto?

The EU have said that in the event of a new government, they would renegotiate.

The current Labour party and manifesto probably has the clearest, most comprehensive and most distinct raft of policies seen in this country is decades. It’s not all about brexit. Brexit was an inevitable result of many things - having policies that tackle those is the best way turn public support towards remaining in the EU and prevent the situation happening again.


#112

Lib Dem’s are just fucking tories.


#113

But of course why would you vote for a party that are pursuing a policy i.e. brexit (unless they come out against it in their manifesto) that will make austerity and public service funding worse?


#114

Austerity and public funding is a choice.
Can just massively increase the public debt if you want like the tories have done while doing austerity to cut the debt


#115

Has a swing voter?

Joy! So Labour in government would go through this whole fandango again, except secretly pretending, cos…

It kinda is, unfortunately.

This is good. Genuinely. It’s the right approach. But it’s a long term aim, somewhat separate from the present Brexit question.


#116

What answers have you got apart from stop brexit?


#117

Will brexit improve the problems caused by austerity and underfunding?


#118

It doesn’t correlate


#119

wait i’m reading this as the lib dems saying we ain’t leaving without a deal or with the neogitated agreement, are they actually saying they accept may’s deal and will leave on that?