p.s I donāt even like metalcore that much! Not my favourite type of hardcore at all, so possibly not the best person to ask. Do like those bands mentioned above a lot though
Yeah - another really good example from earlier in the 90s - such a good album
Hereās the thing though, Converge have always rejected the term Metalcore and just consider themselves āpunks who are obsessed with Slayer riffsā which is very obvious from the early stuff. Think the reason people see Jane Doe as such a game changer is because it was such a personal leap in quality and ambition and it happened to come out pretty much at the peak of that sub-genreās popularity and creativity. If anything it can be seen as the beginning of the end of that sub-genre as it morphed into something else. They stood away from the tough guy hardcore Boston is usually associated with, as did Cave In, which helps, and I think their crossover appeal (though I feel this is being a bit over emphasised, plenty of people I know who are into heavy music donāt like or know Converge) is really just because they were able to tap in to a whole different strands of that scene while simultaneously writing a record that is nothing short of a masterpiece in terms of its writing, itās production, itās flow etc. And yes Bannonās iconic artwork doesnāt hurt.
8 Likes
Oh yeah iām not a ranker, just for discussion.
I think this is where genre becomes and issueā¦i feel like Orchid and Yaphet Kotto (funny how youāve picked two of my all time favourite bands!!) have more for screamo and emo, and donāt think of them when thinking of Converge to be honest. Farewell Note to this city aside! (i would agree on the qulaity/importance of those records though) Love some Earth Crisis and they are influential for sure but for me personally they sound more dated - but then the early metalcore chug has aged to my ears. Not a big Turmoil fan really. I donāt think Botch really nailed it until WATR (but what an album) also, but would say itās at least as inventive and influential as Jane Doe for sure.
Iād probably through Coalesce in there also.
Iād probably totally agree if they had split after When Forever Comes Crashing to be honest.
Not heard that Day of Suffering so will have a listen cheers.
I probably think of them as a hardcore band up to You Fail Me and then from No Heroes on they felt more like a metal band though.
2 Likes
Likewise 
weāre the wrong audience!
completely forgot about these guys, another band to go back to!
1 Like
Which was pretty much the definition of metal core for a long time.
(you could argue until jane doe came out!)
1 Like
Itās here - love to hear what you think after the first three tracks (@mrmrongov too). Just 
for me, still!
2 Likes
Yeah - Seasons In The Abyss probably had a bigger impact on 90s hardcore than just about any actual hardcore record you could mention
3 Likes
Thanks dude. Iāll check it later and report back.
Love records that can still do it after all this years 
I used to hold up The Saddest Day as one of the best hardcore songs (and still think itās incredible tbf) but then you realise it is Slayer and Morbid Angel riffs just mixed up a bit 
1 Like
My own take is that Jane Doe takes the best bits of metalcore and this sound and manages to mix them perfectly while adding some extra elements to make it uniquely theirs, but might just be me. Appreciate Iām coming across like I donāt rate it when I absolutely do. Completely rinsed it at the time which is why I possibly donāt listen to it that much these days, but itās an incredible record for sure
4 Likes
Catharsis were great too
Did not really have any knowledge about Convergeās inspirations. Thanks to this thread, looking forwards to rectifying that for sure.
Totally agree with this and it shouldnāt be overlooked. I think deliberately stepping away from the very macho, tough guy image that hardcore punk had been associated with really helped Jane Doe stand out (along with it just generally being a masterpiece with amazing artwork). Pig Destroyerās Terrifyer pulled a similar trick with Grindcore around the same time.
2 Likes
What a record that is btw
5 Likes
Agreed, absolutely fucking killer album. Iāve been trying to write about how awesome it is but words fail me. Might be the most pissed off but poetic album Iāve ever heard. Once Pretty In Casts kicks off, I am a mess of limbs for the remaining thirty minutes.
2 Likes
Funny you pick that album also as similar to converge (who seemed to upset hardcore fans with Jane Doe) as i remember Terrifyer having a similar reaction from some grind fans at the time. Think some saw it as false grind as it has memorable riffs on 
That would be nonsense though as itās clearly incredible.
(Think grind fans had a hard time around 2000 with the Locust and the like coming along with the old casio grind!)
3 Likes
oh my god I loved Coalesce
5 Likes
Iām the only one who voted for āPetitioningā¦ā?
huh
Iād forgotten to vote but thatās my fave too